Talent Talks with Laura Casci: Why AI Needs a Human Strategy

Julian Buschmaas: Welcome to Talent Talks by Be Impact, the podcast where we speak with leaders across professional services, technology, and consulting about what it really takes to attract, grow and retain top talent. I'm your host, Julian Bushmas, CEO and co-founder of Be Impact. And our software enables employees to teach what they've learned to teams and nonprofits and startups to develop soft skills because we believe That teaching is not only the best way to learn something, it's also the best way to create, or as we say, to be impact. And in each episode, we explore how firms are rethinking development, leadership, and culture, and what it takes to build teams that stay and thrive. And today I'm ⁓ joined by Laura Akashi, managing partner UK at Valcon. And what I found especially interesting about your story is that it was not Some perfectly mapped out career from day one. ⁓ you studied IT, stepped away ⁓ from tech at first, and then found your way into consulting through what you called, I think, a twist of ⁓ dairy fate. And ⁓ that one decision opened the door to a career built around solving complex problems, leading teams, and helping clients to deliver meaningful change. So ⁓ there's always Something very grounded in the way you talked about leadership. ⁓ you've spoken about growing through adversity, about the importance of self awareness and about being kind, honest and authentic, even when you cannot please everyone. And now you're leading Vulkan UK at a point where business is scaling with real ambition around data and AI, while also trying to keep its culture collaborative, inclusive and human. And that makes this, I think, a very timely conversation because a lot of leaders are trying to work out the same thing right now. How do you embrace AI properly without losing the human skills and judgment that great organizations still depend on? And today, hence, we will focus on that tension and what it means for leadership development and junior tolerance ⁓ coming to the market. But yeah, Laura, ⁓ very well welcome to Talent Talks. ⁓ to get us started tell us a little bit about your journey ⁓ today where you are right now and what's the one liner on your role today that keeps you focused? so yeah ⁓ thank you for the warm welcome. I'm happy to be here ⁓ Julian. my journey to to today, well I'm going to talk about the physical today. I'm actually in Glasgow and that's ⁓ a nice change actually since I joined Valcon. I tend to spend most of my time ⁓ In London, ⁓ because about sixty percent of our team is is based ⁓ in London in the south east and southwest. But actually we've also got team across the UK, but I'm a Glasgow person, so ⁓ we've got ⁓ we've just opened an office in Glasgow just today, we've announced it, ⁓ and opened an office in Birmingham and Manchester as well, as we try to engage the team across the UK. In growing. And yeah, tell us a little bit ⁓ about your your journey, how you got how you got here. ⁓ yeah, so probably go back as far as school actually. I wasn't the most academic pupil in the world. ⁓ but I knew when I left school I wanted to do something that was a mix of ⁓ business. ⁓ I th I saw myself as this high powered businesswoman in a set of high heels. ⁓ and actually IT, ⁓ which was quite up and coming at the time. I've be been around a long time. ⁓ so I decided ⁓ initially to do H and D in Business Information Systems. I then did a BA in information management and then a postgrad in IT. That was my journey. and ⁓ when I left I was ⁓ sure that I didn't want to do anything to do with programming. ⁓ because ⁓ I'd had enough of it at university. entered into a a a job that was doing training and administration. Yeah. And then ⁓ decided that actually ⁓ I was, you know, it was more sensible to go back into the world of IT and landed in a career in consulting. And I've been in consulting now for nearly thirty years and it just fits me, ⁓ which is great. There's lots of variety in consulting as you can imagine, and I think I've got a low boredom threshold. So ⁓ yeah, it it's good for me. Fantastic. And now you joined Valcong at the moment of I guess big ambition ⁓ around data and AI. what does that ambition look like in practice from your seat here in the UK? ⁓ so yeah, so I have joined Valcon at a really interesting time. business that ⁓ is a data and AI led business transformation consultancy. ⁓ we've got about seventeen hundred people across Balkan, about two hundred and fifty in the UK and we've got big growth ambitions. ⁓ we are P backed ⁓ by a company called Riven Capital who ⁓ invested in us I guess just over a year ago and They are ambitious, my board are ambitious, and I'm ambitious. And what do we mean by ambitious? ⁓ it's it can't just be growth for the sake of it, does it? We want high quality, great excellence ⁓ and and growth that really makes change for our clients. and and and what does that mean in terms of where we are as a business at the moment? ⁓ well We're trying to grow our pipeline so we have a a wider variety of clients, but we're also trying to grow our teams and making sure that ⁓ our teams have the right skill set in a very changing world. ⁓ and that means trying to make everybody evolve, and me included, AI native and using ⁓ AI technologies to to do our job. No, fantastic. And I guess that gets us started really in in today's episode. ⁓ an hour on our earlier call to You said people are generally worried about what AI means for their jobs and careers. How real is that concern? So so I think there's two schools of thought. There's people who grasp opportunity and see AI as a way to do their job more effectively, more efficiently, and actually ⁓ to be able to do new things that they hadn't done before. But we also see, particularly in the world of things like operations or in some of our client teams. ⁓ where they're scared that AI is is going to lead to to job losses. And and and and look, I think we can see it coming that there's some organizations that are using AI to very much ⁓ be ⁓ a way to reduce their headcount. but personally I think the businesses who see AI as an opportunity to increase what they can do for their customers are the ones that are going to be much more successful ⁓ as the the next 18 months or so progress? No, ⁓ I I think I I very much agree on on that side of things and and really improving quality I guess also of the outputs for for what is what is happening. ⁓ so in the conversations that you have on the on ⁓ on on the level, be it with clients or within the industry, what what do leaders you think then get wrong currently when they try to bring people on that AI journey? so so I think There's there's so many problems actually that that you see, and different different organizations have different challenges. so some organizations just go, We want to adopt AI and and that that's it, but they haven't really thought about why AI is important for their business. And if you don't have that thought process, then you don't understand what what technologies or what AI adoption you need to do that that will actually help you achieve your business outcomes. So that's that's the one of the big problems. I think there's lots of barriers to change, ⁓ as there always is with AI ⁓ with AI, it's just another change, isn't it? ⁓ it's ⁓ it's more technology. And those barriers are not taking your team on a journey, telling them why you're going to do and use AI, ⁓ how it can actually help the organisation, help them. ⁓ and bec and because of that, that's when you get the fear if you don't tell them what you're trying to achieve. And I think also people feel that employers are not being honest about why they want to adopt AI as well. ⁓ so I think it's really incumbent on us as leaders, you know, to say that actually, yeah, this is about efficiencies or it is about capacity or it is about making sure that we're fit for the future. and I think organizations don't always tell that that that story and I think you have to. In a transparent way. ⁓ Okay. And you you said, and I guess this is echoing your your first point that you made, that this has to be intentional. ⁓ so then what does intentional AI adoption actually look like in practice? Yeah. So so for me, ⁓ that includes a number of things. So what one is don't think about AI as technology, see it as a business outcome. So go to the root cause of or the the problem that you're trying to solve or the opportunity you're trying to grasp and understand that because that's what's going to set out your vision for your AI strategy and your AI adoption. I think a lot of organizations also think about AI from a technology perspective in terms of their technology teams. And actually AI can really help your operational teams as well. So you need to have a I I I I think about what is the operating model that we want to work with ⁓ in this new AI world and what or what does our future target state look like and be really intentional about this is where we are, this is what we're where we want to get to, this is the technology in the AI that will allow us to do to do that. ⁓ so I think that's part of being intentional. I think com strategy is really important as well, making sure you bring the your team on a journey. And it but there are just some other things that I think you need to think about when you're adopting AI. I think one of the other things actually is really important is about adopting AI on the right things. ⁓ I'll give it I'll give an example. I am I've been seeing a lot of companies ⁓ using ⁓ AI bots to interview ⁓ people ⁓ in their first or second interviews. that's not an experience people like. ⁓ I it that and I personally wouldn't use AI to do a physical interview. I think that interaction is really important. But I also think that you s you miss potential if you're using ⁓ AI to ⁓ identify what you need in your business. And actually what you think sometimes you need in your business isn't quite what you need. And then you realise that but having really good conversations with somebody and you think absolutely this person can add a lot of value to our organization. And I think you miss that. Are there some stories you can tell how that helped you selecting the right candidates? Yeah, I I mean AI can definitely be used from a screening perspective and that and and that type of thing, but I don't think anything beats that human interaction when it goes to making decisions. And I actually think ⁓ one of the areas where that's really important is in those junior hiring space ⁓ as well. Because if you're just going to hire for the people who have the best qualifications in the best exam, you know, i i exam courses, whatever that you you you you you want to hire, that's not going to bring you diversity in your business. That's not going to bring you potential. It's not going to bring you people with different thoughts. ⁓ and I think that's critical, right? Are are there some things when you ⁓ let let's stay on this for for a second ⁓ that you personally value when you when you when you look in these interviews or when you when you hire for what what are some of the traits that that you detect that you may that that I might not catch in that? And that includes I guess ⁓ anything whether you have a too strict of a framework that is applied where they where they operate and yeah, so s some of my best hires have been people who actually might not have the best qualifications. But they actually have a real ⁓ love for writing code, for instance, or being an engineer. And because they love what they do, and you can spot that when you're having a conversation, then you can see they can add more value to you than somebody that's got that first class honours degree. I think the other thing is commu communic communication ⁓ is really important and And I just don't see a bot being able to really get through and understand if somebody is a good communicator or not. Yes, they might be ⁓ able to answer certain specific points in a question that's been asked, but it's the way you do it, it's the ⁓ emotion, it's the all the visual clues, it's the empathy that you show. I just don't think an AI bot can can can do that. Yeah, no, ⁓ I I agree. I guess it it it might in the future at some point, but Not yet. Some of the things ⁓ that are not possible. Yeah, I really like that approach. And I guess that is the thing that the organization needs to protect, I guess, some human touch points. more carefully even as as AI groups. Where do you think were are other of these, let's say, ⁓ touch points that we that we shouldn't lose in the interactions? So this is a really interesting one 'cause I do think lots of organizations are are are going down the route of like try to automate all tasks so that can be automated. You know, I I think if you're a business that deals with customers, then customers get really frustrated if they can't get hold of a person to answer, particularly those more complex questions. ⁓ so AI, absolutely use it for eighty percent of your your customer interaction, but but For those difficult times, ⁓ you know, if you're a life in pensions company and somebody has to report that a loved one has died and that that, you know, they're trying to access critical illness funds or pension funds, that's the time that you absolutely need. A human who's going to be empathetic and caring and show concern for you as an individual. Those are the kind of touch points that need to be in person. Yeah. When you look in your your own business and your own operations, what are the things that yeah, you you you really want to keep human for now in this kind of way and what are the things that you're thinking of automating and and working on more? Yeah, so so we're cer we're certainly trying to ⁓ bring more efficiencies around our operations around things like ⁓ resource planning and workflow management, that type of thing, because actually I think our customers will get a better quality of response. So we have the ability to see what of our teams is the best person for a particular role. AI is really good at doing that. I think that's great. ⁓ but I what AI can't do is get really great team engagement coming together. You need people to be together in a room to really be engaging, having deep conversations. ⁓ you know th that type of thing, that that community engagement ⁓ is really important. But I also think like if if you've got an HR incident, right, the last thing you want to be using is a is some sort of ⁓ bot or automated process to be dealing with that. You want that personal touch. So Laura, you also mentioned in our earlier conversation that maybe technical training is is not enough anymore. ⁓ we also do need, I guess, the the human skills side of things. So Wha why is that? Can you explain a bit around that? ⁓ so I believe that you do need tech technical training, it's n it's it's not but it's not the be all and end all. so rolling out technology and tools to people to use AI as an example, you actually need to help them to understand what aspects of their job ⁓ that they can use those tools and and give guidance because some people need that. There's others that are really happy to experiment and get the most out of tools and technology. ⁓ so but I s I think it's different people need different types of of engagement. But the second thing is around those soft skills. And I'm I and I'm sure there's AI training out there that can help people become better at those soft skills as well. But actually I think nothing gets a team more engaged in building soft skills than interacting with their peers. people they work with, ⁓ and coming together for some of that soft skills training. I think that's really critical. No, that that makes a lot of sense. And you mentioned there as well the the topic of around retention with that. ⁓ and how yeah, I guess people want to have that human connection in the office or with their or the connection to their employees that that some of those trainings can then build together. ⁓ do you want to expand a bit on that again? Yeah, so so I I genuinely believe that when you work for an organization you want to feel invested in that organization or certainly I do and ha getting paid a salary at the end of the the the the month is really important, right? We all work ⁓ to to pay bills, right? ⁓ that's what most of us have to do. ⁓ But actually you state a job because you like the people that you work with, you w like the work that you do. And and I and if you're not engaging your team well and you're just using AI and you're not having that personal touch, then people don't become sticky in an organization. And if someone comes along and says, Here's an extra five thousand pounds to to do the same or a very similar kind of job people are going to leave and there's always somebody that will pay a little bit more money. So it's our job as a leader to make sure that everybody has that human touch, feels engaged and feels sticky and invested in the company that they work for. And let's talk a little bit about how you're building, I guess, that that culture per se. Is there something that leaders have taught you that you're now passing on to the teams that you lead ⁓ to to bring in I guess that sense of of human touch in a way. and then more generally after that how how how does it work when I join your company ⁓ in order to to receive those skills. Okay. So so I just think I'm a naturally nosy person. So when people ⁓ join our company, I want to meet them. ⁓ and I've actually had people who've joined us say, ⁓ I'm only a consultant, why am I getting to meet the managing partner ⁓ w when I join? And actually I want to meet everybody who works for the company. I want to understand who they are and what they do and what is of interest to them and how they want to grow their career because if I don't know that, I can't make the most of that person. So it's back to that retention ⁓ thing that that that we talked about. ⁓ i in terms of my approach, I I I've certainly learned a lot of other people in the past, but in terms of my approach I think it's pretty much me. It's it it's kind of being an open person. So mm you know, we don't have offices anymore, but you know, that that old statement of the the office door is always open, come in. If you need anything, you know, please ask. That for me is the most critical thing. I think you need to be accessible to to your team. And I I I I've learned that. I also think you have to be really transparent, you know. not everything I do the team will like. Some of the stuff that I do the team won't like, but ⁓ I'm always trying to do stuff for the benefit of the business, the customers and your team as an entirety. So sometimes people don't see why we're doing something. And it's really important as us as leaders to communicate really well what we're doing and why we're doing it. And it's as simple as that. So I I just think it's about being honest, transparent, open, and also being a you know, fun leader as well, you know. Like you you've you've got to lead by example, you've got to enjoy what you're doing, you've got to have energy, you've got to have passion. And, you know, if I can represent that to my team Hopefully that rubs off in them and they have the same passion and enjoyment of working for for Balcon. Fantastic. ⁓ has to anything changed? I mean, you've been with the organization for under a year now, but maybe in general you could you could answer that also through your past experiences. H has is there a change now how you approach new joiners joining to the firm and and and hiring and the kind of skills and capabilities they need to to bring with them. Or does that stay the same but the way you approach their journey once they join the firm might be changing or even that is not the the case and it is just business as usual? it is kind of business as usual in that we're always, you know, wherever I've worked, ⁓ Vulcan or elsewhere, we've always tried to attract the right people that that fit our business ⁓ needs. We've always ⁓ tried to onboard those people really well so they get a really good understanding of what we do as a business, what's important to us, our values, all of those kind of stuff. That that's kind of business as usual. I think what what's changed is that we are looking for people who are certainly in Vulcan, you know, the the shape of our business has changed over recent years. We're looking for people who are really want to adopt and be excited about the AI and data opportunities that will come along. So I think, you know, in the past some consultants wouldn't see ⁓ AI as part of their role. ⁓ and actually whether you're a consultant or whether you're anything else, ⁓ you know, work as anything else, I think you have to accept that AI is becoming part of the world. And you have to adopt it and you have to get on board with it, ⁓ because it's not going anywhere. ⁓ and if anything, there's going to be more of it and you should just see it as an opportunity. So that's slightly different. I since I've been at Balcon, ⁓ one of the things I try to do is improve the onboarding process, improve how people understand ⁓ our service offerings and what we do. but you know that's Just stuff that I would normally do anywhere, would ever have been, you know. Can you can you name ⁓ some of those those examples and and and what it looks like when I when I join at ⁓ at at your company? What are kind of the things and you mentioned a few of them already, ⁓ that I should bring and what are the things that I that I will actually learn just by being on the job and being part of that? And how formal versus how informal is that process? Yeah, so so we we have ⁓ a formal onboarding process which you know introduces people to the company and its history. I think that's really important. We ⁓ take everybody through our service offerings and what we do as a company so that people understand what we do. We introduce them to various people within the organization so that they know you know who to go to and how to navigate the organization with any questions. they do some mandatory training type activity and some of that is very much changed now to be around AI native skills, ⁓ which I guess is is is fairly new to you know in in in the the scale of things. ⁓ we we do kind of introduction to AI and all the things that you know, there's about four or five courses that get people up to speed on on on using ⁓ on using AI, which is really important. Or they're online ⁓ or they're recorded or web how does that we we are using ⁓ a lot of online training so we use things like O'Reilly and things like like that. ⁓ and then we've got partnership training. So ⁓ for instance, you know, we are an ⁓ goal partner of Databricks so we try and put everybody through some level of Databricks training as well. It doesn't matter what role you do in the business as an example. but we our capabilities decide what training is required for each of our teams and who's joining and what the gaps they may have. So it's quite tailored ⁓ from that perspective. ⁓ and we make sure that you know they they they're getting all the training they need to be a rounded Vulcan consultant. I'm not sure if there's anything else to say but That that makes that makes a lot of sense. So it's this mix of yeah, the formal setup around some mandatory trainings and then the rest I guess. Yeah. I think Yeah. And and what I was gonna say as well, that engagement piece is really important as I say I reach out ⁓ in the first couple of weeks of people joining and just try to understand them as an individual. So does their capability lead. Everybody at Vulcan has ⁓ a mentor as well, so they will reach out to them as well. So there's all those soft touch points as well. to make sure that people have everything they need when they when they join. And then when they join, you you you mentioned the AI capabilities now being model, but is is that a must have? Do you does anyone join the company that doesn't have AI capabilities just yet? Not many now, Eva Mone. So like we certainly are ramp ramping up our our data and AI capability in Vulcan. But even if you're a a tech consultant ⁓ joining us and let's say you're an engineer, you should be using tooling that will help you be more efficient in your jobs. We we expect, I guess we're looking for when we hire people who have have have been, you know, a l at least experimental with AI tools. I think if you came to us as a tech person in particular, but even as a consultant and said, ⁓ I haven't done anything with AI, I think I would be a bit worried that they might not be the right person for our organization. Okay, so that that is basically changing more on ⁓ on ⁓ yeah, on on on the ground requirements to your to your tool set ⁓ toolkit, I guess in the past was have you used Excel before? Yeah exactly. How how is that then across the different seniorities in the business that you're thinking about this ⁓ AI capability rollout? So we have juniors, the new ones that are coming in. They ideally have already a a good level. So that is, I guess, understood. ⁓ and then you have the the people that have been in the business, I guess, for a longer time. And you have clearly some people that are maybe more on the technical side, ⁓ that that that rolls out and you have others that are more on the non-technical side. How how do you think in general about then the roll out of of of these AI capabilities through a business, in your own business? Yeah. And then again, ⁓ within the industry? So so ⁓ I I think my answer is probably the same for our own business and with the industry. That at every level, everybody should have the funtimate fundamental knowledge of of AI and and we are we're not differentiating between if you're a partner, me included, or if you're an engineer in terms of the the basics of the training. So I've done my Databricks training, I've done my J N AI training. ⁓ you know, ⁓ I I I expect I can't talk about these things to a customer if I if I don't know about these things and I'm not utilising tooling myself. I think where the difference is slightly is that ⁓ if you're ⁓ engineer or you're a business analyst or you're doing prompt engineering, ⁓ there's probably a deeper level in fact there is a deeper level of training that those people are doing ⁓ to a higher certification level than what I'm doing. But I think everybody has to have the basics, whatever level that you are in an organization. And I don't care what type of organization you are, whether you're a consultancy, we're a big bank, where you're whether you're the NHS If you're a leader in that organization, you need to be practicing what you're preaching and with your team. I agree. And do you think there's a big difference between being AI literate and being AI capable? Then being AI literate is guess more knowing the tools and I capable using the right judgment and choosing the right use cases and verifying the outputs, I guess. ⁓ do you see that distinction too? I I d I do think actually there is there is a a difference, but I think you've got to start somewhere, right? And the the I think I I think as long as you get the right messages around, even if you're trying to teach people to be AI literate, you're saying to them things like, Sometimes it's wrong, please read what you're sending out, please validate what you're doing, please make sure that you understand it. I'm I'm a great fan of not just saying to an AI tool, write me, I don't know, a business case. I'll probably write it first of all and then I might use it to check certain things. So everybody's different, right? ⁓ about how how they work best. But if I don't write something, I don't understand it. I can make it better, I can polish it, I can get hints and tips. But for me, if I don't do the thinking up front a little bit, then what I get back, I can't present it well to a client. but but I'm sure ⁓ everybody's different. But I think I think you have to be a little bit ⁓ savvy, ⁓ you know, switched on and not just take that because I've done an AI course that I am really capable at using AI. No, that that totally makes sense. ⁓ if you're thinking about the people that are leading the shift and well inside an organization What are they doing differently? I think it I think it's a couple of things. They have a really clear vision, ⁓ about what they're trying to achieve. They really understand the business outcomes about what they're trying to achieve. They're not trying to use AI technology because somebody said to them, Here's some budget because we've got to do AI. ⁓ I I think cultural change and adoption, people who understand that actually ⁓ i it's not just about implementing technology and they're taking their team on a journey, they're doing the training that we've talked about, they're making sure that their team have all the tools and and and and right communication to know w when to use AI, when not to, ⁓ when to have human tasks, all of those kind of things. Everything we've discussed actually in this this call today. ⁓ if you're doing all of those things well, you will probably you know ⁓ be moving forward in AI in in the right way. But it but I do believe ⁓ that you have to think about a couple of things. one is if if you're just going to do it AI for efficiencies, I think, you know, as I said earlier on, I think you'll get caught out quite quickly because I think the businesses that would really transform are the ones that say how do we improve our business with AI? How does that give us more capacity? How can we get build better products? ⁓ how can we reach a wider range of customers? Those are the ones who really adopt AI at the heart of what they're trying to achieve with this business, rather than just ⁓ technology to do efficiencies, will be the ones that succeed and fly actually. Because I think we're now at a a fundamental industrial revolution, a shift, and if you get it right, ⁓ it will be amazing. But see if you get it wrong, I think your business is in danger. No, ⁓ I I I fully ag agree. those those words on that. ⁓ Yeah, with that, I think there's not much more to talk on the on the AI side of the things. I think that was a good good ending on this. I want to shift the conversation now towards the end a bit on on impact and purpose and culture, I guess, in general. When when you hear the words social impact or purpose, ⁓ what do they mean to you personally and what role do you think they play for a business ⁓ in those times? So I think if you're a business, you have a moral responsibility, a moral duty to give back to your local community. I I that that's it. So if you're a UK business, you've you know and you're based in London, that's where you should focus your your CSR activity. I am a big fan of organisations like ⁓ the Scottish Tech Army who run Tech for Good programs where consultancies like herself ⁓ can ⁓ support third sector organisations ⁓ by using our team, maybe our bench, to help build products and services and and just help people in our local community. you know I if you know when I we've now got a new office in Glasgow, we've just opened it up. If there's any third sector organizations based in Glasgow and and need some space ⁓ to do events or or or need to you know a meeting, please reach out to me because I believe we should help you, right? And it's as simple as that. And we we can't always help, but if we can, we will try. And and that's that's my my view. ⁓ but I also think there's a a social responsibility as an employer as well. So you know with the best world in the world, I want to make sure that we're hiring a diverse mix of people and I want to give ⁓ as we move forward youngsters that maybe come from more socially economic deprived areas an opportunity that they wouldn't get with a a a a big consultancy because they they don't necessarily have the first class degree or they don't speak with the Posh London accent and they might have a really strong Laswegian accent. I I d that's so important to me. I we've got to give people chances, especially in this day and age when the the gulf between I think ⁓ people who have things and people who don't and people ha and and I mean by that opportunity is growing. Yep ⁓ and if we as bus as businesses if we don't try and help resolve that we're failing in our duty I think. No, fantastic. And do you recognise differences in in how the employees engage with the business after they have done some of these these courses ⁓ that you mentioned around tech for good or and supporting that. Do you see ⁓ the people side inside your business how some of these have been benefiting your your your business? Yeah, so we we've just ⁓ kind of working with tech for good because obviously I've not been at Balcom very long, so it's ⁓ new, but I'd worked with them ⁓ as an as an example organization for about seven years in my my last ⁓ company. ⁓ and ⁓ the team love it, right? It makes people sticky and they you know, people, particularly young people today, actually want to be seen to be doing good. That's really important. And ⁓ if they've got the opportunity to help a charity ⁓ by you know building an app or doing some BA activities, ⁓ it makes them love the consultancy that work for, you know, Vulcan. ⁓ more because they see us committed to the community. But also what you see is that that kind of ⁓ multiplier effect as well. So they're they're helping a ch third sector organization at work and then they start working with that third sector organization in different ways as well. So they they might volunteer their time outside work. ⁓ which I think is amazing. So you get that real multiplier pay it forward effect. It's fantastic. What do you think stops more businesses than doing that? I don't think until you actually do something you realize the benefits of it. and I think people focus, leaders quite often focus on the bottom line and ⁓ focus on ⁓ you know, delivery for customers and that's all really important stuff. Like You can't run a business without those things. But if you can shift the dial on helping your community or you can shift the dial in team engagement or you know, lots of other things, ⁓ it makes you a better business to work for. So you get those ROIs, you get, you know, your team staying around longer, ⁓ you you you you get a lot of goodwill back as well when you need to ask them to do some a additional activities or work a few extra hours, ⁓ they're much more likely to do that if they feel that they work for a fair organization that are doing the right things. No, fantastic, Laura. Thank you for for sharing around these topics. ⁓ as well. We're coming now to our very last part of today, which is ⁓ quickfire. So these are like four five I think it's five questions in total. ⁓ where one sentence answers or one word answers are are fine. and ⁓ yeah. Ready when you are. I'll try my best. ⁓ what do great leaders do more than anyone else? Engage with their teams. Yeah. What do ⁓ what's one talent mistake companies keep making? Hiring the same type of people. when it comes to employee development, what's one thing employee ⁓ businesses should stop doing right now and what's one thing they should double down on? I think they should stop putting everything online and they should double down on getting some people in a room together to do training because it's much more empowering. In twenty twenty six the most valuable skill at work will be? AI literacy. Yeah. And what's one thing leaders still underestimate about the AI transition? How fast it will go. Yeah. And last is there an opinion that you have changed yourself in the last two years? And if so, which that's a that's a difficult quick fire one. Yeah, no, no, actually probably a more personal ⁓ response. ⁓ I I I've changed jobs recently and it it it wasn't necessarily set a p a plan that I was planning to make. But you shouldn't be scared of change. And change brings excitement and new energy. And ha having worked in my last company for seven years, I didn't realise I needed a bit of a of a a a shift in energy which And and it's really worked out for me actually at Valcon. So I'm really pleased to have joined. But it's really about don't be safe in your own wee box and and and and you know go for it. Fantastic. And ⁓ yeah, with with those last words, Laura, ⁓ thank you so much. ⁓ I really enjoyed this conversation. I think I personally learned a lot, and so I think that our audience will. Yeah, I think it stood out to me. It was really not just a conversation about AI tools, conversation more about people, how you help them to adapt, how you build confidence. ⁓ but also I guess, yeah, motivation on them to to try something new and and and get on that line. So let me know how people can get in touch with you in case they want to, ⁓ because they have some questions about the things that you said today or because they want to learn more about your work at Vulcan, where can they reach you best? ⁓ probably on LinkedIn actually. I'm a bit of a LinkedIn queen. I like LinkedIn. ⁓ I post a lot. I had a post this morning. ⁓ so if you connect with me, I will definitely respond and ⁓ yeah I'm looking forward to hearing from people. Fantastic. And then to our listeners, please don't forget to like, subscribe, comment And share this episode with with your colleagues, friends and family and anybody that wants to build teams that stay and thrive. And I guess ⁓ a very last note at the end on why we ⁓ run ⁓ Talent Talks in the first place. ⁓ at B Impact we believe the AI transition is not just about the tools, it's about the people building the judgment, the communication and confidence confidence to use those tools well. And we believe one of the best ways to make that is by making learning stick, is by teaching others. ⁓ so if you're thinking about how to develop soft skills around AI, how to help people already moving faster ⁓ to become the ones who bring others with them, then that's exactly the kind of work we care about. So ⁓ yeah don't hesitate to get in touch with me as well at julianbimpact.co dot uk. ⁓ Laura, thank you so much again. It was a real pleasure of having you on Talent Talks. You wanna