speaker-1: Welcome to Talent Talks, the podcast where we speak with leaders in professional services about what it really takes to attract, grow and retain ⁓ top talent. I'm Julian, ⁓ the CEO and co-founder of Be Impact, ⁓ where we believe that teaching others is not only the best way to learn, but also the best way to be impact. And in each episode, we're really looking at company culture, at learning and development in times of AI, and ⁓ yeah, what this all has to do with impact as well when it comes to building teams that stay and thrive. And today I'm very excited to have ⁓ Simon with me. ⁓ Simon ⁓ Ps, who is managing director at ⁓ North Highland firm, is headquartered in Atlanta, but he's heading and leading the UK business. ⁓ he has twenty plus years experience in consulting, ⁓ made Started his career in a company like EY and then moved to yeah, North Highland when it was fairly small, still like fifty employees. ⁓ so he will tell us about that shift, ⁓ moving from that big company to a smaller one. ⁓ and I think there's something that stuck with me what he said about that, which is they are large enough to to have scale, but small enough to care, and we will unpack that as well. And then as usual, we're gonna speak about culture. and leadership on that. We're gonna talk about how ⁓ they are approaching ⁓ currently the pressure from AI or the transformation from AI on their own workforce, but also how that plays out with their clients because ⁓ they are a change consultancy, so they work with private and public sector companies on on those topics as well. ⁓ And last ⁓ Simon is also a trustee in a charity called Inspire. And ⁓ he will tell us about how that helps him as well with leading his teens, I guess, at the firm. And yeah, Simon, ⁓ a very warm welcome to Talent Talks. Maybe we can start with you telling your own story or tell us about you in in your own words and what's top of your mind in twenty twenty six?

speaker-0: Yeah, sure. Well, thank you very much for having me, Julian. ⁓ great to be here. ⁓ so yes, so Simon P. S. ⁓ like you said, I've been in ⁓ consulting over 20 years. ⁓ I started my career at a university with Ernst Young, ⁓ really focused on do public sector work and doing business consulting within sort of central government ⁓ departments. ⁓ I was there for about six, seven years, ⁓ and I came to a bit of a crossroads. ⁓ where I needed to decide whether I wanted to stay with a big big firm, which I, you know, I loved it. They they really helped me to develop in my early stages. ⁓ but I wanted to go out and sort of ⁓ test myself, see if ⁓ it was all about the the the firm or was it about me. ⁓ and so I found ⁓ North Highland or or Quedis was the the the UK office which was acquired by North Highland. And that like you said, there was about ⁓ 50 employees, fifty, sixty employees when I joined ⁓ very different feel, a real A startup, you know, everyone did everything. and it gave me an opportunity to ⁓ figure out whether I guess I was any good at good at consulting and see if ⁓ clients wanted to buy me rather than the firm. So that was really exciting. from there I've been with the firm 15 years. ⁓ I've worked across every industry from ⁓ retail to ⁓ pharmaceuticals to transport and logistics to financial services. ⁓ And I've played lots of different roles within the firm. ⁓ but I think the whole time I've been there, there's always been a focus on developing others. Yeah. ⁓ everything from you know developing small teams on the projects I worked with ⁓ at my clients, ⁓ to leading parts of the firm, whether it be industry groups or capability groups. ⁓ and I I also at one point led our Academy, which is like our junior talent development program. ⁓ and and now Later in my my career I'm now in a leadership position, helping to lead the the ⁓ UK, the EMIA part of the firm. ⁓ and so I I I guess now I'm I'm sort of developing on a much, much broader scale. But it's been very exciting and and very fulfilling. And and like you said, ⁓ I'm also a trustee with Inspire E B P, which ⁓ is a really fulfilling part ⁓ of my day to day. And yeah, we can talk a bit more about that in a bit.

speaker-1: Fantastic. And ⁓ so twenty twenty six it started already a bit, ⁓ quite turbulent for many businesses. ⁓ what what's top of your mind?

speaker-0: Yeah, ⁓ yeah, it's a good good question. I think after the last couple of years, which have been ⁓ very challenging, ⁓ yeah, the macroeconomic client has been unpredictable. Yeah. ⁓ and I think twenty twenty six has not been any different. ⁓ so I think number one priority really was to get off to a good start, ⁓ actually build a solid foundation ⁓ for the year, ⁓ and and actually try and have a good twenty twenty-six. ⁓ because when we do that, ⁓ it allows us to be a more successful firm and we can then invest in the development of our people, which is which is really important. you know, our model is to to grow our own ⁓ and and and build people who ⁓ work in the North Highland way. ⁓ and so that allows us to do that. So I think that's that's kind of number one. number two, on that point, ⁓ you know, we We are reinvesting in developing our junior people. So you do see a lot in the market at the moment, ⁓ organisations, you know, and we'll get on to it, but ⁓ moving into, you know, l leveraging AI. well, w we think it's we're taking more of a combined approach that we we are still going to invest in our junior talent and build them through. ⁓ and then we're going to ⁓ use AI to accelerate the work we do, ⁓ drive efficiencies in the work we do and and be able to deliver more value to our clients. ⁓ and then thirdly, Part of my role ⁓ is to drive growth in the firm. Yeah. ⁓ and so we recently, or not that recently, it's actually 18 months now, ⁓ started to build out a a near shore capability in South Africa. ⁓ that's to support our our UK clients. ⁓ and that was, you know, that was five, ten people last year. We're now at about forty, and the plans to to grow that beyond a hundred. So that's one of my ⁓ one of my priorities. ⁓ and that's interesting because that's that's a That's a completely different way of developing a group, doing it in a remote way. ⁓ so it's ⁓ giving me a new lease of life in terms of of developing people.

speaker-1: Fantastic. And I guess one of the things, and I mentioned it in the intro already, was that you said when you moved to North Highland, and I guess that is probably now still true, although you're more than fifty people now in the UK, when you mentioned it's it's large enough to have a scalable project, global projects in one way or another as well. ⁓ but also small enough to care. How what does that mean for your leadership style and for those of your partners?

speaker-0: Yeah, I think it's an interesting one 'cause we are. We're we're what what's called a mid sized consultancy. So we sort of sit in between ⁓ your sort of niche firms, ⁓ which might be, you know, ten, twenty people doing a very specific thing. And then you've got your big organizations which are thousands of in employees, and we sort of sit in the middle. ⁓ so we we are bigger than those niche firms. So we do have that scale. We do operate globally, we ⁓ you know, we operate across twenty twenty plus countries ⁓ and and we have got ⁓ hubs in you know in Europe, in Asia and in the UK, in the US. So we've got that global scale. ⁓ from a leadership perspective, we have a lot of people with big four, big consultancy pedigree. Yeah. ⁓ so we can go toe to toe with those big organizations. ⁓ however, ⁓ because of our size and you know the North Highland brand isn't necessarily a ⁓ Have the has the same impact as some of those big firms just from a ⁓ a knowledge point of view. ⁓ we have to care because every client is important to us. We have to do a good job because our reputation is number one priority. So we have to care. ⁓ and then from a people perspective, ⁓ we are a people focused organization. So you said in in the intro, we're a change and transformation consultancy. So our focus is on helping clients go through that journey. We look at it through a lens of people and actually how do you change the way that people work, how do they adopt new ways of working? ⁓ and therefore we also have to look at looking after our people. So we're a very people focused organization externally and internally.

speaker-1: There was this moment then where you worked at I guess Ernst and Young and you were like, Okay, I'm I'm switching to now a fifty people organization. Talk us a bit through through that through that moment.

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, ⁓ that was a definitely a culture shift because ⁓ I guess ⁓ so those the big firms EY and and and others, ⁓ they're great organizations, they've done they do they do great work, they've got great reputations with their clients, but because of their size, they do need to standardize how they deliver their work in order to get consistency across all of the different teams. Coming into an organization of fifty people that's acting like a startup. Yep. Like that is everyone's rolling up their sleeves, everyone's getting involved, there is no standards, there's no templates, there's none of that stuff, which all of that machine that was behind me at EY, none of that existed. So that was ⁓ on one hand, a bit scary because you you're trying to go toe to toe with these organizations knowing that you've got kind of nothing behind you, it's just whatever you've got. But that also became really, really exciting. Yeah. ⁓ because I could challenge the way that things were done. I could really think about how can I be innovative, how can I do things differently, how can I challenge the status quo. ⁓ and because we were focused on being a people focused organization, ⁓ you could really I guess elevate my the EQ side of of of me and actually how do I ⁓ get inside the head of my clients and help them change their behaviours, their ways of working, really get under the the skin of their their their people to to drive adoption of the change, ⁓ which was just a different angle than I had working at EY.

speaker-1: Fantastic. And if you look at well, your own leadership style, but also again those of your peers, what what makes ⁓ somebody at North Highland really I guess successful in in in that? What do you have what do you have in common with them?

speaker-0: Yeah, I think one is ⁓ y you do genuinely have to care about the people, ⁓ because you need to bring them along with you. ⁓ you need them to believe in what we're trying to do. So you do have to focus on the individual and and think about the people. ⁓ I think you need to demonstrate confidence because you need to help them understand we can go toe to toe. We are Just as good as those other organizations. You have to be like that. You have to be entrepreneurial because you've got to constantly be evolving what you're doing and changing the way because you're constantly challenging these other brands. ⁓ so you've got to gotta show all of that. ⁓ I my personal style that I add to that is ⁓ I if you asked anybody at the firm what's the one thing Simon would say, he'd say control what you can control. Right. So I use that in lots of different ways, but I use that to help people navigate the ambiguity of the consulting landscape. And this the last couple of years I've had to really reinforce that. ⁓ and then the final thing I'd say is all of that probably is the ⁓ kind of the working hard side of it. You've got to have fun. Like we spend so much time at work, it's gotta be a good place to work. And that in order to attract talent, yes, you've got to give them the opportunities to grow and develop and build the skills that make them ⁓ give the market value, ⁓ but yeah, it's gotta be a fun place to work. You've got to feel good about it. You've gotta ⁓ invest in the person, not just the them as a there's a them as a number.

speaker-1: Perfect. Then let's switch to the other side then. how do you spot a top performer in your firm or in talents and and what do they do differently when you work with them than maybe others?

speaker-0: Yeah. So my personal opinion is mindset trumps skills. Yep. So I can teach you skills. I can teach you how to do things. Mindset is something that's sort of i in inbuilt. ⁓ so I'm always looking for how do people show up. How do people show up? How do people take on challenges? How do they show humility? How do they how do they put their hand up and go, I don't know, ask good questions, ⁓ don't just plow on regardless. ⁓ I want to see confidence. ⁓ but there's nothing wrong with saying, I don't know what to you know, I I need help. So I think there's a real mindset thing that I look for. ⁓ but but ultimately you also need people to be ambitious and and have drive and be a self starter. So it's a bit of a combination of those those two things. ⁓ and and then finally it is ⁓ being dependable. Do what you say you're gonna do and do it to the best of your abilities. ⁓ but if things go wrong. Put your hand up, say it's going wrong, but do it early, don't do it late. So it's a combination of things.

speaker-1: So on the flip side, people who are not the on the top performing side, they they don't ask as much questions. They they pretend to know things they don't know. And they they don't show up in the same kind of way.

speaker-0: Yeah, and it's not about ⁓ the bit that I wanna say is it's not about ⁓ you know being introverted or extroverted. So there's the same thing. What I'm not looking for is the person who's the first person to speak in the room. It's not that. It's it's ⁓ it's it's person who's thinking about it genuinely you can be a ⁓ a reflector, ⁓ but then you still need to be a contributor, so you can't be a passenger. So ⁓ yeah, some sometimes I think ⁓ you see people who are allowed get ahead and I'm an e I'm an extrovert myself. ⁓ But I think it's about being, yeah, thoughtful and being engaging and proactive and all those kind of things.

speaker-1: So now we have somebody super engaged. He's ⁓ they're motivated. And now I think everyone needs to learn when they go into the consulting industry. It's a it's a people based business. There's a lot to to grow once you start as a junior. And you have the academy. Talk us a little bit through how that approach works and in n in North Highland, how you how you approach yeah, learning and development.

speaker-0: Sure. ⁓ so yeah, so ⁓ so we have the Academy ⁓ and it is focused on the first I'd say three to five years, because it's not it's not a ⁓ conveyor belt. It's not like you do one year, then two years, then three years, and you're off. It's not that. It is bas you know everyone goes through it at their own pace. Some people you know thrive and and and and accelerate through it and and that's great. What I tell a lot of people with that is career's a long time, right? And what generally happens is you might speed through that, but actually probably in 10 to 15 t years time, you're probably about the same spot. You've just taken your own own kind of path. So as that early part of their careers, we recruit we actually ⁓ bring in ⁓ s interns, so 12 month interns who are in the third year of their university. They come in ⁓ and that is part of the academy. ⁓ and then some of those come back as as employees. ⁓ and then we recruit from graduates. ⁓ and we also recruit from other industries and and other consultancies. But ultimately you work through that and then ⁓ that takes you through sort of the analyst and consultant grades and then you ⁓ then you're promoted into senior consultant and that tends to be when you start to specialise a bit that whichever angle you're gonna take. Are you going to be you know going down a product route or you're gonna go down a change route or a data route or whatever it is, ⁓ or more of a account management route. Yep. That that's where you kind of start to make that choice. ⁓ and it's not a like a rigid program. ⁓ it is a real yes, there is sort of some core elements to it to build fundamental skills for doing consulting. ⁓ but then and and and you know, building technical skills and soft skills, ⁓ but it's not a regimented program and it it tends to go in line with sort of on the job learning. So based on actually, you know, after a couple of weeks you're you're out at the cold face working with clients, working with teams, learning, ⁓ and then the idea is the the academy learning journey is to helping you to reinforce and deepen those skills that you're using on the clients.

speaker-1: Fantastic. And what's working with that model really well and what isn't?

speaker-0: Yeah, that's a very good question. ⁓ I think what works well is ⁓ when we have great people in the academy. Like they're great people and the people who come out of it like they are you we get great feedback from our clients, ⁓ they show up really well, they're developing, they're they're enjoying, they continue. So quite often you see after, you know, ⁓ like accounting for example, you might start at one of those firms, get your qualification and then go off to do something different. We tend to see pretty good ⁓ retention as people go from the academy into the next part of their journey. So that means we must be doing something right. Yep. ⁓ so I think that works well. Secondly, ⁓ our junior talent are ambitious, they're creative, they're also digital natives. So given, you know, the topic of AI and and technology in general, like that that's second nature to them. So they're actually challenging how I'm doing things, making sure, you know, am I using Copilot, am I using Claude? Am I using whatever? ⁓ to accelerate the work. So that that's good. That there's a good healthy tension there. or it doesn't doesn't work as well is that in the consulting world you tend to flip between it being about capability and being about industry. Mm-hmm. When it's capability, that's a now I'm gonna use easier to teach. It's like a practical skill. Like you learn Project management or something like that. You learn to, you know, do a project plan, right? You can teach that. That's kind of something, it doesn't really matter. Industry is so specific, like understanding truly how do you get a drug to market for a pharmaceutical, like actually understanding that. ⁓ or how does ⁓ you know, how does underwriting actually work for in in the insurance, right? Clients in the at the moment are wanting that. They're wanting, yes, good skills, but they're wanting the industry lens. That's when developing junior talents can can be a challenge because that does take years experience. That does being properly in it.

speaker-1: And I wanna come to that point in a bit again because I think this is something we're gonna yeah, talk about when it does come to AI. ⁓ and how that affects ⁓ junior people. But ⁓ before that I wanna have a more yeah, one more minute on the on the academy and there's something just before we we went in the studio today, you told me, which is that you actually a firm believer that we should teach some skills before you need them rather than when you need them. Which is ⁓ fairly in contrast, I guess, to some of the trends right now that I observe in the learning development industry, which is more and more even just learn in the very moment, learn when you need it, fueled of course by the possibilities with AI right now. But why is it important that we learn some skills before we actually need them and and how do we learn them then?

speaker-0: Yeah, so you you're spot on and yeah. Half the people learn everything they do on YouTube, you know, like you when I'm doing DIY at home, I'm like figuring out how to, you know, use some tool. ⁓ but my belief is about developing habits. So like if I pick something very specific, like business development like sales, ⁓ the traditional method is to teach people how to do business development sales, whatever you want to call it. when they're reaching the latter stages of, or not maybe not latter stages of career, but certainly the mid stages, right? You've 10, 15 years in each career, you know, for big four firms, it's the partners that do all the selling. ⁓ the the challenge I see with that is the best kind of selling is authentic. And if you're learning at that point, it's not authentic. You are you are potentially a used car salesperson or whatever it is. Whereas I think actually teaching someone who's an intern to be curious, right? And I'm not saying I'm teaching an intern to do hard sales negotiation. I'm just going, let me teach you the skills and the habits now. Yeah so when I ask you to do it in ten years time, you're already doing it. Right. So that's where I think it it's a bit of a contrast. So that's why I think it's not every skill, but I think there's some fundamental skills of what you're gonna it's just showing some foresight of later on. Yes, even now with AI, you can y use AI to help you with business development to identify targets and all that kind of stuff. But I think there's something about Honestly, in consulting, heart a large part of it is instinct. So when I go into a client and I walk into the room and I have my initial conversation and they tell me their problem, my instinct or experience will will trigger and I will go, I think I know what's going on. Or at least I know the questions to ask to to to to explore that. If I haven't built that instinct early on, I'd probably miss that. Yeah. So That's why I believe building some of those instincts early in your career is really, really important and it can accelerate your career.

speaker-1: Fantastic. And now, yeah, the big elephant in the room is AI and what it does to to the company ⁓ and the ways of working, especially also in consulting. And some of the things that are affecting, I guess, the junior kind of work, ⁓ especially in consulting firms, the analysis, the reporting, the research part of the b the slide creation. But before we come to that, tell me a bit where is North Highland on that journey from being very curious? To experimenting, to scaling, to rolling it fully out across everyone.

speaker-0: We are ⁓ we're we're somewhere in the third part of what you just said. So we you know, we started off like a lot of people, ⁓ you know, using things like Copilot to help you know, take minutes and things like that, ⁓ and capture actions from meetings and you know, transcribe and then you can yeah, analyze it afterwards. So we we did a bit of that to try and drive some basic efficiency in the administrative work that we do. So we've done that. ⁓ we've then sort of developed our own ⁓ L L ⁓ to to in order to actually better use our own knowledge base and actually interrogate that and start to teach people around how do you write good prompts and now we've got prompt libraries and and ⁓ use cases and all those kind of things. ⁓ and now we're kind of taking that that next step in terms of like truly how can we accelerate the work that we do. ⁓ how can we drive efficiency chall clients are challenging us now ⁓ to to drive efficiency in how we work. Right. And pass that on back on to them. So we're we're really now going, right, how can we use that to really accelerate the work that we can do, get to value quicker, those kind of things. So now we are not in mature in that bit yet, but that's where we're we're kind of working now.

speaker-1: And then it's often described currently the difference between AI literacy and AI capabilities, ⁓ being literature just meaning essentially I know about the tools, I know how an LLM in theory works, ⁓ and capable of being using it for the right use cases and really applying that. If you look at your overall workforce then or num number of employees where w where Wh where is the majority sitting on that? Is that a classic Pareto eighty twenty kind of distribution or

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, probably. I think I'd say everyone is literate. and everyone is curious and we are really trying to reinforce the use of it. ⁓ is everyone capable? Probably not. ⁓ but I think again, you know, back to my earlier point about the academy. They're all over it. Yeah. They're all over it in terms of what they can do. 'Cause that you know, it's supercharging what they can do. Yeah. ⁓ and I think that's again, yeah, we'll probably get onto it, but like philosophically I think it's about supercharging our junior talent. Yeah. ⁓ as opposed to replacing our junior talent.

speaker-1: And yeah, that's an important point because through those conversations I'm having here in ⁓ in the show but ⁓ with our company as well, we see quite a few ⁓ people in the industry saying, Well, we we are moving from ⁓ the classical ⁓ triangular shape into a diamond shape, ⁓ where it just means less juniors, ⁓ a higher set of mid to senior career people that that can leverage AI more. looks like you guys stake more on developing the the junior part. Tell us a bit why. How how does that play out?

speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ Partly because so we started out on this journey trying to change the way the world thought about consulting. That's where we started this, right? We wanted people to show up differently. Like we we pride ourselves on a client going, it's different working with you than it is working with the competition. Yeah. ⁓ and part of that is it so I did say we we've got people who've got pedigree. I have pedigree from from from the bigger firms. ⁓ those people are already a bit set in their ways, right? So we we need to keep building people who work in a different way in order to challenge those people who are coming in from those big organizations, but continue with that that kind of promise. So almost like philosophically we have to keep developing talent. ⁓ then then secondly, I my and we talked a bit about this, like again, I just think back to my instinct point, if we're not gonna bring people in this point, like part of it, like all of these AI tools are brilliant. But they're only as good as whatever data they're using. They're only as good as the prompt that you're using. They're only as good as c as the person who's using them. Yeah. ⁓ and when you fast forward and you go into look like a gentic tel technology and all those kind of things, someone is gonna have to manage all of this and they're gonna have to, you know, it's almost like, so how are we going to develop people in order to do that if they're almost skipping those first few years? Well, I get worried about people skipping these first formative years where you ⁓ you're allowed to make all your mistakes. Right, you're allowed to make your mistakes because then you learn and then that becomes insight. If we skip this bit, I I worry about what what almost like inefficiencies and problems we're gonna create for ourselves down the line because we just didn't learn some of the basics. Now I'm not saying don't use AI, that's definitely not what I'm saying. It's just help it supercharge you.

speaker-1: But but that's a really interesting point to to further on. There's so other people that are talking about almost like a driving license for AI, you know, like in terms of when are you ready to use it and accelerate that and there's a few things we talked about, like right, ⁓ taking notes and using that more as a strategic weapon. Or what are some of the other examples that or skills that you learned, I guess, the hard way in the long way that you fear might be now lost because well, technology is is taking all our notes. Maybe there's a few other examples like that.

speaker-0: Yeah, ⁓ I think so actually I I'd use to use the analogy of the ⁓ the driving lesson. I would use the analogy of a maths test. Okay. Right. And part of a maths test now, you don't actually well, this might be not a hundred percent accurate, it's been a while since I was at school, but you never got full marks for getting it right. You got full marks for showing your workings. Yeah. Right? And showing your workings meant you fully understood how you got to the answer, therefore you've understood it. Right? So if we're gonna use AI to skip all of that, how do I how can I then challenge it? How can I make sure it's right? Because it's about the QA that comes after it. So I think that that's what the you've got to learn. From a a personal perspective, the sort of the the hard yards, I think ⁓ actually thinking on my feet. Like if at the moment if we can use the technology to get the answer straight away, like actually when I'm in the situations where the technology fails me or actually I've I've I haven't actually understood it, what am I going to do next? How can I how can I rely on my own knowledge, my own insight? Half of my job is storytelling. Yeah. Right. If I don't have any good stor and it's being compelling in my stories, if I didn't actually live like I can't be that comp I can't ha I have to convince clients to do things they generally don't want to do. How can I do that if I don't have good stories? So I think all of those mistakes, all those things I learned when I'm more junior, my understanding of risk, those things, which aren't necessarily fun or interesting, they then make me a really good advisor later in my career. So I I think we just gotta it's just a problem we've got to work through. I just don't think AI can't be a silver bullet. It's like figuring out how do we get all of the best parts to come together for a solution.

speaker-1: And then the second point you mentioned around that is this industry specific knowledge. But I d is that something that AI though can help with quite quite quite a bit? I mean, I wanna learn how you mentioned that I don't know that the process for drug development works. Isn't that something then that accelerates the the junior from that? Where they it's more about the yeah, how does that relate to the instincts you talked earlier about?

speaker-0: hundred percent. So I think a as we even were starting to talk about that, I I was like, yeah, that is a great use case. So it's I understand ⁓ you know the skill I need to deploy or the you know the tool I need to to to use or whatever it is, but I don't under s I need the context. Well then that's great. So asking asking AI, prompting AI to tell me, okay, help me understand what are the nuances of of the industry I'm walking into. So I can be smart in that and understand which things apply and which things don't apply. So for example, is it a regulated industry? Therefore certain things will apply. There will, you know, certain things will drop you, there'll be you need to think more about risk. Yeah. Right. Whatever it is. Like I think that means that's great. That's an additive thing. But you need to then go, right, I understand the context, I understand the world I'm working into. I understand what I need to dial up and dial down. But I still need to know how to use the thing. Yeah right. And I need to convince a human to do it. So I th that's why I think it's it's doing those things together rather than one or the other.

speaker-1: Now, we talked a bit more about how this all plays out within your own organization. Now you are an organization that helps businesses to change and adapt to new situations and I guess that includes AI transformation in that end. What's your general observation right now in the industry with the clients that you're working on? Where are they on that on that level and what is the what what are kind of the core blockers that you see and observe?

speaker-0: I think at the moment it's a bit of everyone's got a a an AI hammer and they're and they're trying to find a nut. Right? I've got to use AI, I've got to use it. It's it's you know, everyone else is using it, I've got to use it. That's a sweeping generalization. But like I think AI's the answer. I just wonder whether, you know, there's a bit of a let's fully understand the problem. Right. And is AI the right the right answer or you know, do we need to get some things in place before we can make the most of that? So I think I think it's you often see this as things that start to challenging our our ways of working. You jump to the solution without necessarily understanding the problem. ⁓ so I think there's a bit of that. I think different clients are at different stages. you know, some are some are really advanced in what they're doing. ⁓ some industries honestly they're trying still trying to catch up on the last ten years. Right, because that's their their industry hasn't necessarily been disrupted yet, whereas a lot of others have. So I think everyone's on a slightly different journey. I think the thing that's making it tough is, yeah, back to my opening some of my opening statements about the macroeconomic client. Everyone is like financially challenged. So cost is a big thing at the moment, and AI using AI to drive efficiency or whatever it is. is is very attractive in a way to try and drive cost out of my business. So it is seen as I I want to make the most of it 'cause I'm I'm under quite a lot of pressure right now. ⁓ so that's where I think it's a bit of a balance.

speaker-1: now if you could give yourself advice again, ⁓ being starting again at I guess ⁓ the North Highland when there you were still fifty people, so w what what would you tell yourself from a d development perspective on some of the skills that really mattered?

speaker-0: I think I would tell myself, ⁓ don't worry, a lot of us are still making it up, is what I tell myself. I think a lot of people suffer from imposter syndrome when they go into their different situations. They think everyone knows everything. I remember seeing people who were probably me back then and I thought they had all the answers and that put sort of undue pressure onto me. If I'd only known ⁓ how little I knew that of You know, like I think that takes the pre like, especially now you think about, you know, the anxiety that's in the world today and and from a you know mental health perspective, I think we put so much pressure on us in those early stages to be way more advanced than we are. Yeah. I think I would have started to flourish quicker if I hadn't actually had this like non existent pressure that was created. And, you know, when you join these big firms, ⁓ you know, that You're joining with lots of other really, really talented people. So you enter in it just kind of reinforces itself. So I think ⁓ and I was even so my my son is he's doing his sats today and he was doing it yesterday and this week. ⁓ and the one piece of advice I gave him was just take a deep breath. Take a deep breath before you do anything. Just take a deep breath. One drives oxygen to your brain. I didn't give him advice about, you know, read the question or do whatever. It was like just take a breath. Right. And I think if I took a breath when I was more junior, I think I would have saved myself a lot. So that would be my advice to myself.

speaker-1: Fantastic. Now I want to shift the conversation a little bit to something we also started in the intro to talk about, which is having fun at work. but maybe not so also fun, but also I guess making an impact in the in the communities. And I guess it is something that is really important to yeah, more and more employees, ⁓ but also especially some of the younger colleagues joining ⁓ the workforce. Now, yourself, ⁓ you're a trustee. ⁓ in a in a non profit. When when did that start? And

speaker-0: ⁓ so I've been a trustee for about about five years, I think it is. ⁓ where it where it started ⁓ was so I was working so I was working ⁓ at North Highland. ⁓ we were like a lot of professional services firms, we had a charity day. I was in a park somewhere in North London ⁓ and we'd just spent the last four hours like moving mulch. from one side of the park to the other. ⁓ and I got chatting with ⁓ the rep from the charity we're working with. ⁓ and and I said, you know, I w yeah, this is great, yeah, I'm glad we could help. And so yeah, yeah. I What are you doing tomorrow? I said, pretty much the same. I've got another group coming in and they're gonna move the mulch from from here to over the where where you were. And I kind of like, ⁓ I sort of went, ⁓ that's that's a bit depressing. ⁓ and and kind of it was a real dawning moment of, well, we're not good at moving mulch, but we're good at consulting. So ⁓ started up our pro bono consulting ⁓ arm ⁓ for North Highland here in here here in the UK. ⁓ and ⁓ really what what we have done is look at selecting charities of the year or multiple years 'cause sometimes it takes the first year to really get to know them and how you can make an impact. Yeah. ⁓ so that's really depended. And we invest quite heavily in ⁓ pro bono projects, whether that's one big project, where is it a series of projects, ⁓ Because ultimately a lot of these organizations can't ⁓ can't afford it. Right. So and a lot of it's around how do you get yeah, help them drive their strategy or how do you actually look at their operations and drive efficiency in those. A lot of those things they can't do from themselves. ⁓ anyway, fast forward six, seven years, ⁓ and the I was working with the CEO of of this ⁓ of of the ⁓ the organization I'm a trustee for. ⁓ and actually I thought I need to take the next step. And so I was I said, I wanted to be a trustee. Can you just give me some advice on being that? ⁓ and she said, Well, actually, you know what? We've got a spot open and and we're actually gonna ask you. So those things came together and ⁓ I I became a trustee and ⁓ now I also and am the chair for their ⁓ income generation committee. So that's where I'm taking basically what I do for a living, which is driving growth. ⁓ I'm now helping them to do that from a you know, whether it's a a funding perspective, ⁓ or y ultimate yeah ⁓ yeah ⁓ generating income. So ⁓ yeah, that's kind of my my journey in a nutshell.

speaker-1: Any learnings that you draw from that work that you can bring into your work at Northern Highland?

speaker-0: I mean, honestly, they're they're just like a they're just like a client, but a client who listens to you. That's what they are, I think. Because a lot of organizations, there's so much other stuff going on. They've got the luxury of being able to pick and choose the advice they get. ⁓ working with these kind of organizations, whether it's through the pro bono work or or as a trustee, they genuinely like they genuinely need this insight and they want to drive drive that. so I think that's that's been exciting. That's one of the best parts of of of of my days b is doing that. ⁓ I think also it's about helping our more junior people just think about that, about making an impact in the community that we work in. Like our our focus is on driving economic empowerment. Yeah. That's our focus organizational wide. ⁓ and ⁓ a and and therefore it's instilling that in people in in terms of like how do we give back ⁓ to the the communities within which we which we work.

speaker-1: What would you tell other leaders that are running similar business to yours but that are still more focused on that one volunteering day a year? what you said, moving mulch from one side to the other side. How how can they get started?

speaker-0: I I think it's it's i it's thinking why are you doing it? Like are you doing it just to tick the box that you've done you know, is it part of just yeah, ticking a a CSR box? ⁓ that's not the right answer. I think t you said it, like a lot of ⁓ attracting talent isn't isn't as easy as it was when I started. When you attracted talent, you just had to be a big brand when I started. Like honestly I joined ⁓ my first firm because I recognized it at a graduate presentation. I was like, ⁓ yeah, I think I've seen that before. And that was almost enough to get me there. That's not enough now. People have got so many things outside of work, you know, with ⁓ you know, hybrid working th like it's it's about the whole you and and people wanna do more. They wanna make an impact. They wanna they don't wanna just be a corporate ⁓ stooge. ⁓ so so I think I think those who aren't doing something like this ⁓ are not going to be able to attract or retain the right talent.

speaker-1: Fantastic. with that, ⁓ I'd like to move to our last part, which is our quick fire. So quick answers to I don't know if the questions are quick, but to those questions. What is one leadership lesson you wish you had learned early in your career?

speaker-0: ⁓ I I think ⁓ understanding the impact you can have on others.

speaker-1: What is the most common mistakes ⁓ that companies still do when it comes to developing their people?

speaker-0: Underestimating junior talent.

speaker-1: Now what's one thing management consultancies should stop doing right now when it comes to talent? And what's one thing they should they should double down on?

speaker-0: ⁓ teaching future habits now.

speaker-1: What is the single most valuable skill that consultants can have right now?

speaker-0: ⁓ curiosity.

speaker-1: And last, if you had a magic wand and you could change one thing about how organizations are growing their people right now, what would you change?

speaker-0: I w I would change how we're measuring the impact of learning and development. It's not about the number of training courses, it's not a about the credits, it's about genuinely are we having an impact on our clients because of what people are learning.

speaker-1: Right. Yeah, that is really good answer on that. Fantastic. Well, at this point quickly about why we're running talent talks in the first place. ⁓ you know, at B Impact we truly believe that teaching is the best way of learning and developing ⁓ talent. And especially when it comes to juniors, ⁓ connecting them with a non profit a course they care about and putting them in a position that is imitating basically real client work. running a workshop, listening, and practicing those soft skills ⁓ that are now more needed than ever in times of AI early on in their career is something yeah that we are really passionate about and want to support ⁓ our clients with. So if that resonated with you in today, ⁓ click on www dot beimpact.co dot uk and you get to learn more or reach out to me directly at julian at bimpact.co dot uk. ⁓ but now yeah ⁓ Simon Thank you so much ⁓ for ⁓ yeah coming today and and sharing about you and your work at North Island. ⁓ I learned a lot from this conversation and I hope so did our audience today. and yeah, if you're interested to learn more about Simon or the work that they are doing, where can they reach you?

speaker-0: ⁓ well they can ⁓ our website www.northhighland.com ⁓ and if they want to contact me, Simon.ps at northheighland.com.

speaker-1: Fantastic. And yeah, don't forget to hit that like button. ⁓ subscribe to our channels on YouTube, Spotify, and ⁓ Apple Podcast as well. ⁓ and comment. ⁓ that really helps us. ⁓ tell us who you would like to see next also in the episodes. And ⁓ yeah, that's supporting us quite a lot at the stage. And until next time ⁓ at Talent Talks.